DIS+6

DIS 6

Theologians write about the "redemptive nature of suffering."

__** First **__, comment on this idea. What do you think about it? Agree? Disagree?

__** Second **__, read this section below and then respond to it. Agree? Disagree? Why?

//Job 2:10 "... if we have received good things at the hand of God,//  //why should we not receive evil?"// From papercuts and mosquito bites to the ravages of cancer and the death of a loved one, suffering is a fact of life that all religions try to make sense of. In Hinduism, suffering is seen as the result of karmic debt owed from a prior incarnation; we suffer through, building up "good karma" to balance out what is, ultimately, our own personal fault. To Buddhists, life is suffering because we desire; this desire must be extinguished by walking the Eightfold Noble Path of right belief, right aspiration, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right thought, and right meditation. In Islam, suffering is seen as the result of Allah's positive will ("Verily We have created man into toil and struggle” -- Qu'ran 90:4).  In Rabbinical Judaism, suffering is seen as everything from senseless to positively willed by God to (for some self-described "Torah-true" Jews) a result of Jewish disobedience.   For some brands of Protestantism, suffering is always the result of personal sin ("You're sick? You shouldn't have been playing cards..."), and God wants only "health and wealth" for His people as long as they "believe" (and "plant seeds" by sending a "love gift" to some televangelist).   In orthodox Christianity, suffering has its //ultimate// origins in the human will, the abuse of which, through the sin of Adam, caused the rift between God and man that only Christ can reconcile. Suffering's proximate causes are the effects of Natural Law stemming from our own actions or the actions of others (even going back through the generations), the work of demons, and God's pulling back His mantle of protection, sometimes for obvious reasons, such as punishment, sometimes for inscrutable reasons. In any case, suffering is never positively willed by God, but is allowed for our benefit in the same way a father will allow a child to suffer the consequences of his own actions so that the child will grow and learn to listen to his father, or perhaps in the same way that father might allow his child to "suffer through" piano lessons so that, someday, he will be a great pianist. We may not understand God's reasons for allowing our particular suffering, but we must always trust that we can endure with His grace, and that there is reason for it, whether it is for our correction, purification, penance, to help us realize how radically dependent we are on Him, or whether it is for His appeasement. But how are we to react to our suffering? The answer is unique to Christianity. __**Your comments: **__ **DIS 6 EM:**  **Many have heard the popularly coined phrase "what does not kill us only makes us stronger." I have always made sense of this quote through my religion and through the idea of "the redemptive nature of suffering." Though in the depths of our suffering, it may seem as though there is no light or hope, many times we are ultimately saved from our suffering, and in being saved from our suffering we are being saved from other evils that exist on our earth. Therefore, suffering is wholly redemptive. Suffering brings us closer to ourselves, others, and most importantly, to God. There is a chant that my yoga teacher plays at the beginning of every class, and in this chant the yogi speaking says "it is the struggle that brings us closer." Through our struggles, we become closer to our inner strength. Through our struggles, we find God. I cannot imagine a world without pain and hardship, because without these things there would be no greater light at the end of the tunnel, no strengthened relationship with our Lord, or no discovery of true strength. It is so amazing to read each religion's different views on the "redemptive nature of suffering." The fact that all of the ideas, though different, center around the same idea is so telling, and it truly supports the idea of the "redemptive nature of suffering." In Hinduism and Buddhism, the major idea is balance. I search for balance in my life each day, and it is through suffering and the off kilter of our lives that we are able to find greater balance. I believe Islam has such an amazing view of suffering. It seems as though there is nothing negative about suffering in Islam, as they believe it is the result of positive will and strength. I discussed how strength comes from suffering, but in Islam they believe suffering comes from strength, which says something truly powerful about this religion and about the idea of suffering as a whole. In each of the religions, and especially evident in some brands of Protestantism, suffering is not seen as a punishment from God. The same way we cannot earn God's grace, we cannot ask for suffering. God wants the best for us, and he does not condemn us to suffering because he does not love us, he condemns us to suffering because it is truly redemptive.**  GG: the ides finds its roots in the Passion of Jesus. It is only through the Passion that we find resurrection and eternal life. Correct you are in not seeking it. God would never wants His children to suffer, but when we do experience suffering, we are often offered an opportunity for the action of grace - that is, to find God's face even in the suffering. BK:  I was actually a little bit unclear of the definition of redemptive used in this context. According to the dictionary, redemption in terms of Christianity, is the "deliverance from sin through the incarnation, sufferings, and death of Christ." I would completely agree with Eleanor's statement that "'it is the struggle that brings us closer.'" I think that the these struggles that we experience in life bring us closer to God and Jesus, as during times of suffering, we "get a taste" of Jesus' suffering on the cross. Many turn to religion during times of suffering and/or struggles, as suffering results in redemption and religion provides a relief and comfort during those times of struggle. Jesus suffered and died for us in order for our sins to be forgiven. He knew that God Our Father would take care of him during his time of suffering while on the cross, just like He will for us when we are suffering. Suffering, like Elle said, is part of living, but like many things in life, does not always make sense. Religion tries to make sense of suffering, like it does of many other "confusing" or "unknown" things in life, like how humanity and the world was created. Religions differ on the purpose of suffering and its reason for being in our lives. Like EM stated, Hinduism and Buddhism both seem to reflect that life is about finding balance and suffering is a part of living that balanced lifestyle. For example, suffering is seen in the Hindu religion as "the result of karmic debt owed from a prior incarnation." This idea is not very prominent in the world that we live in, but I still find it fascinating and agree with it on some parts. I like the Buddhist viewpoint that we suffer because of our desiring. There must be balance in our lives between the good and the bad, between contentment and suffering. Suffering is part of life and, like many religions believe, is not given to humans so they can have miserable lives, it is given to them in order to create balance. To quote my fellow classmate Eleanor for a last time, God "condemns us to suffering because it is truly redemptive." GG: There is a strong sense in Christian theology that human suffering is redemptive as it finds its roots in the suffering of Jesus and His Passion. What do you think? JR: God wants each and every one of us to become stronger and more faithful people. Supposedly this can only happen through the redemptive nature of suffering. This idea is no different than a parent punishing a child for wrongdoings because he wants the child to learn what he has done wrong and grow from his mistake. I agree with the statement and both BK’s and EM’s comments that we can grow closer to God through our suffering. In times of suffering and despair, people many times turn to God because they either blame him for the plight or they seek forgiveness to help end the suffering. Jesus turned to God before his Passion to ask God if he would allow Jesus to not have to be crucified. Jesus was hum and what both EM and BK reiterated is that in life there is suffering and it is omethi9ng that each person must deal with. I thought the Hindu’s perspective of suffering is very intriguing because they believe in the reincarnation and that past transgressions (in former lives) must be rectified through suffering in the current life. I agree with all of the religious perspectives because they all echo that suffering is a natural part of life- whether it is part of our will or part of another life. God gives each of us a cross to bear so that we can be forgiven for our sins (original or other kinds). He also lets each person suffer because he loves us and will not give us more than we can handle. Suffering helps us realize what we have to be thankful for and allows us to hopefully see a silver lining to each cloud. God challenges us to overcome our life obstacles so that be can redeem us to our full spiritual and moral potential. GG: L: Be very careful about suffering. Some think it is God-given; others argue that it happens (see the book of Job). God is always there. LD: I have a very skewed view of suffering. Since I was a child I have always been superstitious, even today I firmly believe that my day will be great if I see a Coke truck, but turn awful if I see a Pepsi truck. With this belief, I used to assume that bad things only happen to bad people. Of course, this is not the case. Too some extent I believe that suffering is a combination between something that is self-inflicted, due to a string of others choices, or by chance. For instance, if I suffer by having a toxic relationship with someone, that was not God’s doing, it was mine. If I get hit by a car, I don’t believe God decided that today is the day Lizzy should be slammed by a speeding automobile, it was just a result of that driver not paying attention. It is not that I don’t believe God in a God, I do. I just don’t believe God has a list of people who he decided should get cancer. I believe that God does not directly inflict our pain, but I do believe he gives us the grace to overcome it. GG: (L): Toxic relationships are curious studies (when we are not in them). There is something that draws people. Not that I make any pretense of knowing your situation, but sometimes one wants to try to heal another. Agree about this idea of God. You sound wise like my own mother. She would often say, "God does not do these things to us. Things happen. God helps us get through them."